The Living Pins | Carrie Clark and Pam Peltz on ‘Roxy Unicorn’
Almost thirty years after first making music together, Carrie Clark and Pam Peltz have released their first full-length album as The Living Pins.
In the following interview, they talk about ‘Roxy Unicorn’, the musicians who helped bring it to life and their years in Austin. We’re also pleased to share the album in full. Carrie and Pam first met while working at Austin’s Wheatsville Food Co-op in the mid-’90s. Carrie was playing in Sixteen Deluxe, while Pam was in Ursa Major, and The Living Pins began as something they did alongside their other bands. They never really broke up, although there were plenty of distractions along the way. When we last interviewed them in 2021, they were still recording as a duo. These days Bobby Daniel plays bass and Kristy McInnis is on drums, with Chris ‘Frenchie’ Smith producing their new album at The Bubble in Austin. ‘Roxy Unicorn’ was released on November 13 through The Living Pins, with a vinyl edition on Flak Records. It’s eleven songs of the kind of rock ‘n’ roll Carrie and Pam have always enjoyed, with a healthy affection for T. Rex, Slade and Roxy Music.
“But the band never really broke up. We just got distracted.”
It’s really cool to catch up with you both again! Last time we spoke, The Living Pins were still a duo. Now you’ve got a full band together. How did that happen, and what’s it been like playing with Bobby and Kristy?
Carrie Clark: We decided to get a band together to bring the Freaky Little Monster Children EP to life. We recorded that EP as a duo, but the songs were all so rock and they demanded a rock band. Also, going into the next recording, we both said, “We need a rock band to play this stuff.” That’s how we ended up playing with Claire (Hamilton, bass) and Rich (Malley, drums). They both played on the two singles we released in 2022, “Chateau” and “Oh Yeah”. And then, after those recordings were released, they both had other projects that they needed to work on, so we were once again without a rhythm section.
Pam Peltz: And Carrie had this really brilliant idea to ask the guys in Fastball to see if any of them could play with us. And Joey Shuffield (drums) said “yes”.
Carrie: And that was amazing. We met Joey for delicious fried chicken and he said, “I know the bass player that we should get to play with, Bobby Daniel.” Bobby had been the touring bass player with Fastball. Pam and I had never met Bobby before, but we had so much faith in Joey, we said, “Yeah, let’s ask him.” And then Bobby showed up and it was absolutely brilliant. We played a few shows with that lineup and recorded the Let It Be So EP at The Bubble, and then Joey had to go back and do the Fastball thing.
Pam: When we asked Joey to play, Fastball was on some very rare hiatus and he actually had the time for a side project, but even while we were recording the EP, his band got busy again. So, déjà vu, we needed a drummer. But still, there was a Fastball connection with Kristy (McInnis). I think what happened was Tony (Scalzo) was playing a gig at the Saxon Pub and Kristy was the drummer in another band at that gig, and those two met in the parking lot. Tony mentioned to her that we were looking for a drummer.
Carrie: That is so Austin. Bobby and Kristy were brought to us courtesy of the Fastball Adjacent Reality and it’s been amazing. Because Bobby is so freaking melodic and Kristy can play so straight. It’s everything that I want in a rhythm section. They complement what we’re trying to do, something groovy and pop at the same time, while still being tough when it needs to be tough.
Pam: And Kristy’s a great drummer for that. She’s got that Ringo thing. She can play really straight, as Carrie said, but there’s always this little bit of swing in there. And then we have songs with a lot more swing too, and she’s totally in charge of it.
Carrie: And they’re both really nice people. And they’re fun people. If you’re going to be committed to playing with people, you’ve got to be able to hang out after load-in while you’re waiting for a few hours. And I thoroughly enjoy their company.
Pam: I agree.
You’ve known each other and made music together for such a long time, but Roxy Unicorn is your first full-length album. Why did it take so long? Was an album always something you wanted to do?
Carrie: I think initially, when we first started playing together in the mid-90s, it was a diversion from our other bands, Sixteen Deluxe and Ursa Major, bands that we had to take a little bit more seriously. And at that time, The Living Pins leaned pretty heavily into cover songs and we were basically acoustic. So it never seemed like The Living Pins would be a front and center thing. But the band never really broke up. We just got distracted. And I love the story of how we started playing again. We were at a friend’s house for a cocktail party…and this is so freaking Austin…our friend was the drummer in one of Austin’s premier early 90s underground bands, Ed Hall. And at that party, the guitar player for Ed Hall asked us “Why aren’t you guys playing together anymore?” And we just looked at each other and said, “We don’t actually know…” (laughter). At that point we thought that maybe we should play again.
Pam: By then, music had entered the digital age. And I had some misguided idea that people didn’t really care about albums anymore. And I thought that it was fine to just put out singles and EPs.
Carrie: I was right there with you.
Pam: Then a very knowledgeable and astute musician friend of mine said, “You know, the journalists like albums.” And I’m a huge fan of music journalism. I think that music journalism is a really important part of the music ecosystem. Just like clubs and managers. Everybody is very important in this music world. And I love the writing of Greil Marcus and Lester Bangs and so many others. So when my friend said that to me, it was like a lightbulb lit up in my head and I thought, “Oh, of course, we need an album.”
Carrie: It’s like the body-of-work thing. I compare it with painters or photographers or other visual artists. When they put on a show, they present a body of work. For people to really understand what you’re doing, and for you to communicate what you’re trying to say, or even if you’re just trying to communicate a groove or a vibe. That certain thing that you want people to feel when you play music, for that, you need a body of work.
I love the title Roxy Unicorn! What’s the story behind it? There’s a glam feel to the track. Were you listening to much of that stuff when you were putting the album together?
Pam: I love the word Roxy. It’s so loaded. It’s so rock. And there’s this idea of nightclubs. It seems like every cool city had a nightclub called The Roxy. And of course there’s Roxy Music. And the word actually says, “Rock”. It’s just like the perfect adjective. And then Unicorn is sort of like being really single-minded. Not myopic, but being very focused. So it’s like “focused on rock”. And you’re absolutely right. There is a glam feel to the track. We love glam. We are unabashedly all about T. Rex. And we admire Roxy Music. And we cover a Slade song in our live set. So yes, you are absolutely correct about the glam thing.
I remember Pam saying in our last interview that she’d bring these little creatures out from under the “riff rock”, and Carrie would make musical sweaters for them. I thought that was such a wonderful way of putting it! Is that still how you write together?
Pam: It’s not always the way we write songs, but it usually is. On the other hand, sometimes Carrie will bring in half of a verse and maybe half of a chorus, and then I can’t help myself. I will plead, “Oh, can I finish that? Please, will you let me finish it?” (laughter) So sometimes Carrie starts a song. Good examples of that are “Revolution” and “Understand”.
Carrie: And that’s the joy of cowriting. Whether you’re talking about sweater-knitting or not. For me, cowriting is where it’s at. I totally love knitting the sweaters around somebody else’s stuff but it’s equally as fun to bring some ideas and have Pam add to it. I would much rather cowrite than write on my own. It’s so much more fun.
Pam: Fun is key.
How was it working with Frenchie Smith at The Bubble? I’d love to hear a little about the sessions. Did you go in with the songs pretty much finished, or did things change once you all started playing together?
Carrie: I think each time we’ve gone in to record with Frenchie, we’ve had very solid demos. The song structure, the basic vision of the song, was already there. And then we just have fun with it at The Bubble with Frenchie.
Pam: And we will have rehearsed the songs as a band before we go in. And a few of them, maybe we’re already playing them live at shows. And honestly, we’re a band on a budget. We cannot afford to go into the studio and write songs. And writing in the studio actually kind of sounds like a nightmare to me, to be under that much pressure. What I like about the studio is, we’ll go in knowing 75% of what we’re going to do. And then there’s 10 or 20% that gets added on, where you’re like, “Oh yeah, I knew that was coming.” But then there’s this weird last 5 or 10% that is just like, “Wow. I had no idea that was going to happen to that song and that is really, really cool.” The intro to “Roxy Unicorn” is a perfect example of that.
Carrie: And also the very specific sound of the guitar on “A and B”. Frenchie and I have worked together for a long time and we kind of mind meld on guitar tones. It was hilarious because I had to go buy a new pedal so that the band can play that song live. That sound was so perfect and it was one of those little things that popped out in the studio because we were just having fun with stuff.
Pam: The group hand clap on “Revolution” was another studio surprise. That’s basically Frenchie and I out in the hallway clapping and trying not to laugh. Carrie and I have played “Revolution” in various iterations for quite a long time and that song finally made it onto our studio set list.
Carrie: That’s a song that was really looking for its home for a while. I think I wrote it in 2011.
I’m curious about “Album That You Once Knew”. That’s such a great title. What’s the story behind that song?
Pam: “Album That You Once Knew” is a song about nostalgia, but not necessarily for a place that you’ve actually been to. There are certain albums that give you a strong feeling of place. And it’s a place that you want to return to. For me, Exile on Main St. is the perfect example of that. When I listen to that album, I am in a space where I want to be.
Carrie: The word that I always think of when I think of that song, and I don’t know if it means the same thing to other people, is “wistful”. There’s this feeling of looking back on a very important part of your life or something that clicks into a certain era of your life, and when you feel it, it makes your heart feel full. The wistfulness for me, how I was trying to express that sort of visceral bodily feeling with the guitar parts and the sound that I chose, is very Cocteau Twins. That’s one of those times when Pam came in with a song that had a solid message, a solid feeling. And my job was to knit the sweater. And the sweater that I wanted to wrap around it originally belonged to Robin Guthrie.
We talked quite a bit about the old Austin scene last time. You must have seen so much change over the years. What’s it like for you now? Do you still feel some of that same spirit when you go out and see bands?
Carrie: Last weekend was the first time in a long time that I had the chance to go out and just be an audience member. In this phase of my life, I mainly see bands who are on the same bill with me when I go out to play. That’s not the same experience as going to a show to be an audience member, where you are just there as a fan of the music. So I went to see friends of mine who were in some of those earlier Austin bands, but now they have new projects. They’re all doing new things. So a lot of the same people are playing music, but I get to watch them evolve in what they’re doing. So I feel that the old Austin music scene is very much alive.
Pam: I go out a lot. I live in a part of Austin where I can ride my bicycle to a number of excellent clubs. It’s great not worrying about parking and I love the breeze in my hair. So for me, riding a bicycle and going to a rock show are kind of fused in my mind and I’ve been doing that combo for decades. So there is continuity. And yes, there is a lot of change, but a lot of things stay the same. Here’s an example. We played a show at Tweedy’s about a year ago to celebrate David Fox’s photo exhibition and one of the other bands on the bill included Jesse Sublett from The Skunks. The Skunks are about as old-school Austin as you can get if your starting point is punk. And it’s just really lovely to get to play on the same bill with people who I first saw play shows when I was a teenager.
Klemen Breznikar
Headline credit: Shelly Reese
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