Sagat | Interview | New Album, ‘Silver Lining’
‘Silver Lining’ is the full album debut of Brussel-based electronic producer Sagat. It is out now on Vlek.
Sagat takes us on a deep dive into a dense sonic universe: Its bass music viewed from multiple vantage points, an explorative zoom onto contemporary dance music’s broad ranging cadences, paradoxically viewed from a distance. ‘Silver Lining’ bathes in cluttering rhythms that hover over corroded thumping grooves. Poly chrome synths emerge dramatically, interlocking with oddly timed techno syncopations. Yet all tracks are held together by firm, dubbed out beat repetitions and slabs of sub bass, not without a melodic sense of drama. Sagat’s disintegrated sound-design stands in between musical dichotomies, at once spaced-out, disorienting and emotive, but also explorative, colourful and full of tension. Moving, yet statuesquely standing idle.
“I don’t have a rigid method or discipline”
After 3 EPs and a 7″, this is your full album debut. Do you see it that way too, as your “real debut?” Do you feel you have been “working up” to this release?
Wiet Lengeler: Haha, I believe you missed the one in 2018 on BXL Records, but three on Vlek records and a 7” on Lexi Disques, yes.
I always preferred the EP format for vinyl releases. A good EP is focused; 4 tracks up to 5 minutes, no room for filler. I think having been mainly doing EP’s is also something that comes from buying records from a DJ perspective. I buy very few electronic albums, but my collection is full of maxis and EP’s though. I’ve realised over time that albums rarely end up in my record bag so I tend to play them less. Even though my music might not be DJ friendly, it’s always made with a sound system in mind, and I think a Dj can get creative with them. So initially when I started to talk with Vlek to do another release I was thinking of an EP, but I had way too much material and this time the puzzle didn’t fit the 4 track format. It’s only when Thomas (from Vlek) proposed, why not make an album? That I started thinking in this direction.
To come back to whether I feel this is my “debut” I don’t think so. An album is just something completely different. it tends to hint toward an implicit narrative. I think an album is a way to open up more and go a bit broader musically in terms of what you can show to an audience. It tends to travel further, physically and digitally.
Your first EP is from 2012. How did your work evolve in those 10 years?
As far as the Sagat project goes, I think it has become more mature. My sound also became brighter and more colourful. But it’s hard to say. I don’t tend to listen back a lot to my older releases. but I do tend to go back to older projects from time to time to see if it’s still something that stands the test of time. 10 years seems long, but skimming through a hard drive is instant. Sometimes the old material doesn’t work out, sometimes time makes it better, like opening an old bottle of wine. I might not have a lot of output, I work constantly on new material. Working on music is a lot like time travel for me. I try to make my music respond to the present, to what happens around me and there always will be some things I will always do. It’s hard to say what changed as most tracks tend to have different elements of different times in them. I guess the album still echoes older releases on Vlek.
I had to think about Autechre several times while listening to your album, the post-rave melancholia and the combination of creating a “warm feeling” with “cold sounds.” Does this make sense to you?
You’re not the first to reference Autechre. But it’s interesting that people always tend to point out different things when they say that. I don’t know many people in electronic music that haven’t been influenced by Autechre, that probably says more about me than about people in Electronic music, but sure they have been a huge influence on me. Even though you could say that they are post-rave, they always seemed lightyears ahead of everything, building on top of things, not looking back. Their sound evolved a lot over time, but what they’ve been doing hasn’t changed that much. What I respect enormously is that they have a lot of trust in their process and that they’ve never been afraid of letting the machines they use do the talking. It’s like, oh yeah new gear, let’s completely dismantle it, try everything that’s possible with it until it’s limit. And when they feel like they’ve gotten everything out of that assembly, they usually release some albums by that time, they change their setup.
I don’t have a rigid method or discipline. I try to look back and forth. But a lot of things tell me that it’s urgent to look forward now.
Other references: Burial and Mille Plateaux clicks and cuts on ‘Low Blood,’ Super Collider on ‘Way Down,’ Techno Animal on ‘Eyes Open’ and ‘Rest,’ Powell and Orbital on ‘Levels’.
Hehe I love a lot of those artists, yes, though I never listened to Orbital much and I don’t know Super Collider except from the program. You should send me the tracks to which you are referring. It’s funny you mention Techno Animal, It also might have to do with the person who mastered the record. But ‘Brotherhood Of The Bomb’ is a milestone. We might have some distortion units in common. Burial, yeah of course, the first album is still gold, and he influenced a whole generation.
Sagat is a character from the video game Street Fighter. Why did you choose this name?
To be honest I don’t really remember. I don’ think there’s an interesting story there. Maybe it was part of the 2008 zeitgeist where these 80s video games came back into fashion because of the retromania thing. In any case I picked it, and then people around me started to call me that. So It’s out of my hands now. I do feel kind of bad about abbreviating the name to Sagat sometimes because at the time I didn’t know the “Funk dat” Sagat from Chicago.
Besides making music, you’re also a visual artist. How are these two things linked to each other? Is there a link for you?
I try to keep them separated from each other. I prefer to make the visual work under my own name. But that’s not always possible and maybe confusing for some. Like using visuals for my sets, but I prefer my visual work as stand alone actually. Maybe to avoid too much confusion. I’m already doing a lot of different things. I’m really happy with my latest work in collaboration with Wilted Woman for the 25AV project by Kiosk Radio and Radio Raheem. That will get a follow up.
Did you study at KASK? What did you study? Film?
Yes, I studied audio-visual arts and animation, I loved the fact that it combined moving images, music and graphism. I got a lot out of it, also because there was a big tendency to do everything yourself. But the best part was that they had a music studio and no one used it much because most people just wanted to focus on the animation part. I gradually started making more sound for movies of fellow students and still do some sound design for films or images et cetera. because I know both worlds so it’s easier to communicate in both directions. Sound for image is a very interesting field, but it can be a frustrating venture if you don’t have a basic understanding of both media. They work very differently.
Do you know the work of Jung an Tagen?
Jung An Tagen is a very nice person who makes great music. I don’t really do much procedural stuff or system music, and modular tends to scare me. In the way that I know too many people with huge setups that stopped putting out stuff once they started buying modular. But Jung An Tagen’s music is so good. Very raw, and I love the fact that during the live shows he tends to step away from the gear to join the audience to listen to the music. But in a humble and contemplative way. I don’t know who else would get away with that.
“Electronic music has had very close links to science and engineering since forever”
What do you think of the term IDM? Or “braindance” (as the early 90s Warp compilations were called)? Do you think there’s a difference between “intelligent dance music” and “normal” dance music?
Of all the dumb genre names in the world, IDM must be the worst ever. I think everybody regrets that term and no-one feels comfortable with it. Because it became the opposite of the initial intention of why they called it IDM. I wouldn’t trust anyone who would come to me and say “Hello, I make IDM.” It feels like a term that got traction for all the wrong reasons in the world. Or at least became the opposite of the term’s inception since the artificial intelligence compilations. Electronic music has had very close links to science and engineering since forever, and in that way I can understand the term and it’s good to take a step back and think about those links because you can get creative with them. But a big part of Techno was already exactly that. It quickly felt a bit “white washy” and quickly got used to distinguish music because just dancing to the future of sound wasn’t considered high level enough or something? By the mid 2000’s. The initial reason why IDM was called Intelligent was forgotten. By then the name mutated and became a synonym for middle class white people that listened to electronic music and needed to separate themselves from Techno because they didn’t want to admit they listened to Black music? There must have been a lot of reasons why Warp changed it to Braindance. They had to do something. IDM is too snobby of a term. Maybe I’m wrong, but when I grew up the term smelled like class distinction and it still does. But science and electronic music are linked, and now we actually have artificial intelligence. I’m curious what will happen in the coming months and years in the music field.
Joeri Bruyninckx
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