Captain Beefheart And His Magic Band interview with drummer, John French
John French is one of the most unique drummers, with his very own style, which reflects the music of Captain Beefheart’s Magic Band. John and I spoke about his start as a musician, joining Magic Band, living, recording and touring with Don Van Vliet and much more. In 2010 French released Beefheart: Through the Eyes of Magic, which is an incredible insight into a world of mad genius.
“Merrell and The Exiles”. In April 1964, “Please Be Mine” reached no. 9 in the local Palmdale station KUTY charts! As Exiles you released two singles in 1964, one in 1965 and another one later in 1967 titled “Tomorrow’s Girl” / “When I Get Home”. In 1966 more Merrell and The Exiles sessions took place in Hollywood at the Gary Paxton Studio and in 1967 at the Gold Star Studio with a changing line-up. Merrell once told me, that Don Van Vliet sent a spy to your rehearsal place, because he was interested in members of the band to form what would later become Captain Beefheart. What do you remember about being in The Exiles?
Paul Blakeley on drums. What was going on with Paul, that Don decided to replace
they were in dire straights financially.
They’d just released two singles and it was time to record “Safe As Milk” album
on which your drumming was really unique and way ahead of its time and we can
safely say, you slowly began pushing boundaries in music, even more on “Trout
has-beens at the time. Don was always
stoned, and it seemed like most of the rehearsals were pot-parties. Don never wanted to actually rehearse, he was
constantly creating/jamming and out of that came a few things, but most of the
stuff was disjointed and needed organizing and arrangements. It was very chaotic. Don seemed very lazy and unrealistic in his
role of band leadership.
grandmother Ann Warfield – better known to us as “Grannie Annie.” We rehearsed in the living room. Both mother and grandmother worked at a local
woman’s clothiers called “Scotts.” Don
was very disrespectful of them and sometimes when they would get home, they’d
grab some food from the kitchen and just go straight into their bedrooms. I don’t know how they put up with it. Don’s father had passed away shortly before,
and as I recall, there were three houses owned by the mother and
grandmother. As soon as we moved to
Hollywood, they sold off the houses and moved into a small apartment – thus
avoiding the possibility of their domicile again becoming a rehearsal
Jerry McGee, Don van Vliet, Alex Snouffer, John French.
What do you remember from recording sessions?
drums for the session. I had my own kit
just up the road, and it would have saved a ton of money to just use my drums,
and I had an extra kit they had loaned me to practice upon. It was RCA Studios on Sunset Boulevard and
was only a Four-Track studio, because supposedly Richard Perry, the first-time
producer, was “confused” by the eight track at Sunset Sound (where “Sure ‘Nuf
‘n Yes I do’ was recorded). So, the
whole project was moved to RCA. Gary
Marker, who was promised by Don Van Vliet to be the producer, told me this
story. It’s in my book; “Beefheart:
Through The Eyes of Magic”.
Band was very strange. Can you take us back and tell us about the lyrics
and concept of the band? For instance what was Don referring to with a title
like “safe as milk”?
demonization of pot-smoking by the US Government. Doug Moon said, “It’s ridiculous! Why, smoking pot is as ‘safe as milk!’ Don immediately latched on to this idea and
at one of the meetings we had discussing album titles, suggested this as the
title to the band with Bob Krasnow (Buddah promotion man and our “unofficial”
manager at the time) and Bob’s reaction was joyous laughter and a constant
repeating of the phrase. He loved it.
Exiles? He was playing around with The Omens and The Blackouts. How was the
scene back in the mid-60s there? With whom all did you hang out?
Don at a couple of shows. This was
pre-Exiles. I was much younger than Don
– about 7 ½ years – so his group of friends were more from the fifties – the “Greaser” era as we younger ones referred to it. The era of the greasy Elvis-style hairdos,
leather jackets, button-fly Levis, and white Tee-Shirts.
surf-era – with clean-cut kids posing with surf boards and playing stuff like “Miserlou” and “Pipeline”. The music was
more instrumental, but then you also had the Beach Boys, who were phenomenal in
their vocal harmony.
chum; Don Giesen, Jeff Cotton, Michael Melchione, Harold Fields, Mark Thompson
(now a lawyer) – guys who were more my age.
debut and your second one – “Strictly Personal” or “Mirror Man”, which was
recorded already in 1968, but came out three years later in 1971.
as Milk, which was more of a collaborative effort. Strictly Personal was probably the most
involved I ever saw Don become with a project. He was very “hands-on” and worked very hard to put together the
material. His major flaw in this process
was not really rehearsing with the band, but the material was very strong and
recording “Trout Mask Replica”. You were living for a long period of time in a house and
rehearsed over and over again. What memories do you have from this period and
do you personally like the album?
very painful. This is carefully
described in my above-mentioned book. There was a lot of what I sometimes call “brainwashing sessions” which
were, as I think of them now, more like nightmare encounter groups with a
lunatic in charge of the meeting.
by this time replaced everyone in the band with younger players – all my friends
– but for fear of losing control, he had several “talks” (as he referred to
them) where one or the other of us was run through the mill. Don told me later that I fought back the
hardest. Maybe he told everyone
that. It wasn’t a pleasant time for me. But the music kept drawing me to stay.
was the “Trout Mask Replica” about? Did all the albums you recorded have any
original concept or?
was because I was the most-removed socially from the band and was always hiding
behind a “mask”. I had built a defense
mechanism cope with the intense situation, and he used poetic means to describe
it. I have no idea what he told anyone else, but that’s what he told me.
like a “Package” with postage stamps which included our photos, the whole “Twenty-Fifth Century Quaker” idea. The
inner sleeve of TMR with the reverse-negative psychedelics had been used
already by Frank on the cover of Freak-Out so Don was very upset he used that
effect with us. “Mirror Man” was
basically released post-Trout Mask, and doesn’t even have a photo of the
correct lineup and was just a rush job with poor production from Kama Sutra to
recoup their investment on the sessions, which were performed at TTG studios in
Hollywood. Later, Don started using the
covers as advertisements for his planned post-band art career. He became less-interested in the musical
process and more interested in pushing his art – which included sitting around a lot at rehearsals just drawing in his
art book with felt-pens.
aka Ed Marimba. Did you find drumming with another drummer interesting or did
you have a hard time getting musically along? Also why did Don choose to use
two drummers for recording?
HIS. Don persuaded me to re-join and put
Art basically on Marimba playing the other guitar parts. I enjoyed drumming with Art, who was a
superior technician, but enjoyed my style. We spent a little time together where he showed me several techniques
which I started employing a bit in my playing, but basically, I hung on to my
to move out of the band. When Don was done with the “Bongo Fury” tour he called
you back to join the band, this time in a bit different position; as a director
of “Bat Chain Puller” and at the same time also as part time guitarist for the
album. How was making of “Bat Chain Puler”?
Don had basically burned bridges with just about everyone else who knew
anything about his music, he relied heavily upon me for BCP. I transcribed piano pieces into music and
worked from there on several of the pieces – “Odd Jobs”, “Seam-Crooked Sam”, “Totem Pole”, and “Odd Jobs”. The pieces
weren’t difficult, but I’d had a jump-start on learning them and could play 2
of them blind-folded (literally). So,
as the rehearsals drug on, I wound up playing guitar on “Odd Jobs” to save
time. They stuck me on a different guitar
(Denny Walley’s) for some lame technical reason and plugged the guitar
directly into the board, which gave it a very sterile sound, and I never have
liked the finished product because of this – I’m referring to only the pieces I
played on. Several of the pieces on Bat
Chain Puller are favorites of mine.
when you recorded “Doc at the Radar Station”, which was released in 1980 on
Virgin Records. Would you like to talk about that?
had a very strong “spiritual epiphany” that I was supposed to do this
project. When I walked into his house,
the guitarist (Richard Redus) was just telling Don he was quitting over the
phone as we spoke. When he hung up, I
told Don that God had sent me there to replace the guitarist. It was quite strange, as the last time I
worked with Don, I was there for a totally different reason and playing a
different instrument on most stuff.
project. How did you all get together to record a project? This was an
amazing line up and it must have been highly interesting to record together?
obviously no effort at all made to tour. All I can say is that Henry is a great businessman, Fred is a genius,
and Richard Thompson is a phenomenal artist. Both albums took a couple of weeks, we did a couple of live shows for the first one, and one for the second (at the Ashkenaz). I have fond memories of much of this work,
but I wasn’t prepared musically to write.
stuff, and was very disconnected.
reincarnation of The Magic Band recorded two more albums in the early ’00s. What was the reason to start re-formed band?
therapeutic to get together and do instrumental version of some of the Trout
Mask Replica material with the guys who originally recorded it. She mentioned this to someone and ignited the
fire. It grew into the monster it now is from that.
microphone stand. Firstly, however, when
John Peel introduced us at the Middle-Earth in London in January, 1968. He choked up a bit, and it was quite
touching. But, back to the destruction
of the drum kit: They were sponsoring me
but the kit they loaned me was hideously bad. I plugged away at the shows, but never really could get into it. One night, Don decided to blow his Simran
horn directly into my ear. I had my eyes
closed and it startled me. My reflex
action cause me to strike the cymbal so hard that I broke it – all the way
around the bell. When I went to hit it
again, I lost my balance and fell backwards – knocking the entire drum kit
down. So, I took a mike stand and
pounded it to smithereens. They brought
me a much better kit the next evening.
but can you pick one?
tour in Europe included the UK. A fellow
by the name of Peter Meedham (sp) had something to do with the UK part. We were supposed to play at the Middle Earth
in London and also at the Speakeasy. Neither of these were paying gigs. However, somehow we needed work permits in spite of no payment being
made to us, or money changing hands. We
were detained in Immigration for a time, with Peter and our then-Manager, Bob
Krasnow, telling us from the other side of the Immigration officers that we
should tell them we “weren’t working” in the country. Our guitarist, Alex Snouffer, had a large
amount of marijuana stuffed in a plastic bag in his shoe. So, he got out of
line and went to the men’s room, flushing it, as it looked like there may be
trouble. I was at the end of the line,
and some man who apparently didn’t approve of long hair came up behind me and
kicked me really hard in the bum. I
wanted to turn him into a bloody heap, but thought that would probably be the
worst thing I could do, so I swallowed my pride and ignored this
indignity. Don decided to make the
situation worse by making up some ridiculous story and “coaching” us all in
what we should say. Each person in the
group was told something slightly-different by Don, so our stories made us out
to be far more guilty than if we had just told the truth and said we weren’t
aware of any work permits needed, we were here on a promotional tour, etc.
me by having me drop my pants and undies in an attempt, I suppose, to see if
perhaps I had just forgotten and put me work permit up my backend. Back then, I had a habit of writing down my
dreams, and I had written down quite a strange one on a piece of stationary
from the German hotel at our last stop. It was tucked in my passport case. They grilled me on whether this particular writing was inspired by “the
use of hallucinogens”. I said “no, it’s
a dream, may I pull up my trousers now, sir?” We were eventually put into a detention facility with cots, a lavatory,
and a locked metal door. The next
morning, we were fed powdered eggs and toast and deported to Frankfurt,
Germany. The next day, we were flown
back, DJ John Peel had straightened out the mess and made a public appeal on
radio from what I heard. He met us at
our hotel and introduced us on stage the next night at the Middle Earth. Afterwards, we were trapped in the dressing
room for what seemed like hours as British Fans queued up to meet us. It was very surreal. I was just
Jerry Handley, Don van Vliet, John Peel, Alex Snouffer, Jeff Cotton
hallucinogens for inspiration or perhaps even during concerts?
turned 18. He was very persuasive that “grass” was a great helper in creativity. We had entire rehearsals donated to the idea of just “jammin’ with
weed”. Victor (his cousin) would walk
around with a pipe letting us have hits while we just kept playing. Most of it was a waste of time. The real music (the stuff we recorded) was
mostly done while we were sober/straight and concentrating. He created his best music straight. However, he could write (or I should say,
dictate to whomever happened to be the paper monitor) reams of nonsense poetry
– some of which was quite entertaining.
girlfriend spike my tea with LSD. It was
a mild dose, but enough to throw me completely off and think that everything I
did was genius. Basically, when listen
back to some of that stuff, I wonder if I was dosed more than once.
were SO real that I found myself thinking, after I came down, that these were
things that were always there and I just couldn’t see them when not high. The knotty pine walls in the house looked as
though they were alive – as the though the sap was still flowing – there were
giant tetrahedrons of Jello (mostly red or cherry colored) floating around – giant
3 x 3 x 6 foot things just floating right through the walls and into the
room. I had to walk funny to avoid
them. There were thousands of children’s
playing-blocks scattered around in the garden, and fish swimming through the
called) which was a powerful LSD-like substance that was smoked and produced a
very short “trip” similar to LSD with Victor Hayden and one of his
friends. We sat in the driveway,
cross-legged, and the first hit of this substance produced a kind of
Bankok-Temple kind of jeweled/sculpted effect on everything. It was so beautiful. We all were wearing fancy robes and Victor
had a gold-leaf crown on his head. The
next hit produced a translucence to everything. I could see through solid objects. The guys didn’t believe me until I covered my
eyes completely and had them test me. I
could tell how many fingers they were holding up because I could see right
through my hands like looking through flesh-colored goggles. It was like Technicolor x-rays. The next hit produced complete “white noise”
in my vision. It was like an old TV on a
station with no signal – complete with white noise sound. Victor was trying to get me to take
more. I could hear his voice saying, “come on, John, we’re not done yet!” I
was panicked a bit at that point, as I had no control and felt like I would
drift off into insanity and be blind forever.
creativity. He watched a girl’s face
turn into a fish once – which obviously spawned the cover for Trout Mask
special. How do you feel when you go on stage?
rehearsing well – so that you can “forget” about the music and concentrate on
spontaneity and reaction to the folks without being hindered by “what’s the
next line…?” Performing with The Magic
Band at times has been quite rewarding. The one problem is that it doesn’t give me the chance to grow as an
artist. I miss that. I would love to be playing newer and newer
things – one reason why I have introduced the soprano sax into the group. It gives me something new to do, and I don’t
really play completely free like Don did, but I compose solos and study scales
so as to hopefully add to the music rather than being a soloist with the band as background.
during the years? Also what kind of music did The Magic Band like in general?
It probably very differs from member to member, but I have to ask you this,
because you were such a unique group of musicians.
to whatever Don listened to because I (and eventually “we”) lived with Don. A lot of John Coltrane was played. I loved the extended live versions of things
with Elvin Jones, McCoy Tyner, and Jimmy Garrison. Once that group left, it became too “religious” in the sense of ‘let’s go into the studio, get high, and record some really
far-out shit.’ Although, I must say that
hearing Eric Dolphy play with Coltrane was amazing. Eric had a completely different sense of
phrasing than Coltrane, so it was just SO different in their individual solo
sections. Africa Brass was a great
piece, also, My Favorite Things, and Afro Blue.
favorite than Coltrane (I preferred Coltrane). There was an album he did in Scandinavia (At the Golden Circle,
Stockholm) that basically to me sounded like nonsense about eighty percent of
the time – which is the same way Don’s playing affected me. The trio was Ornette, Charles Moffet (drums), and David Izenzon (Bass).
guitar, bass, drums – the only standout track to me being “Scheme Number One”),
Charles Lloyd, Archie Shepp, Joe Henderson (Carribbean Fire Dance), Horace
Silver (Song for my Father), Wes Montgomery (A Day in the Life).
Son House, Bukka White, One-String Sam, Fred McDowell. That was going a lot and it was mostly the
idea of guitar tonalities and finger-picking techniques along with the idea of
the instruments playing individual “sections” like a big band that influenced
Don, who then caused it to influence the musicians.
got BALLS, man!”), the Rolling Stones (Jagger’s such a faggot), and Led
Zeppelin. I liked Zeppelin right off –
they were kind of my dream group and I would have joined them had they asked. He picked up a James Taylor album, listened
to it once, and said, “this guy’s just a FAD, man — a year from now, no one
will even remember him”.
Don Van Vliet and The Magic Band this serves as the definitive book about the
all our readers can find many more interesting stories, thoughts and general
information about one of the most unique bands of our time. John, do you have
anything else to add? Perhaps a message to your fans and to readers of It’s
Psychedelic Baby Magazine?
more books! http://magicband.org/