RuinsZu, the explosive collaboration between Zu’s core members Massimo Pupillo and Luca T. Mai and Ruins founder Yoshida Tatsuya, has released ‘Jazzisdead,’ a document of their blistering 2024 live performance in Turin.

After decades of mutual admiration and scattered tours, this trio finally solidified their partnership during an extensive European run, culminating in their set at the Jazzisdead festival. The recording captures the 23rd show of the tour, with the band at full tilt, pushing their shared language to its extremes. Pupillo and Mai, long-time devotees of Yoshida’s unrelenting drumming and splitting compositions, lock in with ferocity and abandon. Rather than compromise or meet halfway, each artist magnifies their own intensity in the collision. The result is not free jazz, not noise rock, not prog, but something unrepeatable. Rearranged and revisited after the tour, the material on ‘Jazzisdead’ bristles with precision and danger. Released by Subsound Records, it stands as both culmination and beginning.

Tatsuya Yoshida | Photo by Stefano Barni

“What we need to express through sound is our naked truth”

You’ve mentioned that Ruins was a massive influence on Zu before you even fully formed. Now that you’ve finally done this full-scale collaboration, what hit you the hardest about actually working with Yoshida? Was there a moment where you thought, “Holy shit, this is really happening”?

Massimo and Luca: Actually, there were more than a few moments where I was like, “Holy shit, maybe this is beyond my possibilities!” I practiced Ruins songs for a good three or four months on bass, and some parts in the beginning just seemed impossible to wrap, but slowly and surely they all became manageable. Even until the last shows, there were a couple of moments that took all my focus to execute.

‘Jazzisdead’ was recorded on the 23rd night of a relentless tour. At that point, you’re running on fumes, instinct, and whatever magic happens when a band is locked in. Did that exhaustion—or momentum—push the performance into places it wouldn’t have gone earlier in the tour?

I feel that we just got better and better night after night, so there wasn’t a better place to record a show. We didn’t even plan on recording it. After performing, we were all like, “Oh, I wish this one was recorded,” until a few days later someone told us that indeed it was recorded!

With two bands that have always walked the tightrope between structure and chaos, how did you approach this project? Did you have a framework, or was it all about diving in headfirst and seeing where the music took you?

What comes across as chaos, both in Zu and maybe I can speak for The Ruins too, is never as such. Quite the opposite, everything is so overwritten and structured that the casual listener might think it’s random when it’s all completely locked in structure and in numbers. Also, we had chosen which tracks to play months in advance, so that gave us a lot of time to prepare for it.

That title—“Jazzisdead”—it’s got a lot of weight to it. It’s obviously tied to the festival, but does it carry a deeper meaning for you? A challenge? A joke? A funeral?

It seems to me that most music genres are dead because what is born with the spirit of innovation and going against everything becomes either a museum, or, in the case of punk rock, when Dave Grohl speaks to Obama in the Oval Office, that is punk’s funeral. It seems to me that spirit and fire are to be found outside the limits and containments of pre-existing boxes, and nowadays this probably means outside of the big market and outside the algorithm mind.

Zu has always pulled from so many worlds—metal, noise, avant-garde, industrial, even classical. Where does this record sit in that evolution? A new chapter or something more primal, like coming full circle?

It’s more the latter, because Ruins for us was the kickstarter, a duo that played all music together but in a visceral sense, not in a postmodern one.

The track titles are wild—’Solar Anus,’ ‘Hyderomastgroningem,’ ‘Memories of Zworrisdeh.’ Feels like a mix of sci-fi, surrealism, and cryptic geography. Do these names reflect actual themes, or do you just throw them down and let them take on meaning later?

I can’t speak for Yoshida-san, of course, but in the case of Zu each title is heavily weighted and it expresses a vision. Sometimes it’s the book you are just reading during that composition that creeps in. Sometimes we just offer something that most people will ignore, but a few, as usual, will be triggered and will Google it and find out that there were hidden layers of meaning. Sometimes these kinds of people come to speak to us after shows, and sometimes even new friendships are born, as there are quite interesting and eccentric characters out there.

You’ve collaborated with Mike Patton, John Zorn, and a ton of other genre-breaking artists. Yoshida’s played with basically everyone under the sun, from Acid Mothers to Fred Frith. When you put all those influences in one room, do you end up finding weird, unexpected common ground?

The common ground was the very beginning, because we have known Yoshida since the 90s and used to tour together a lot back then. We used to be huge fans of the Japanese so-called noise scene. Yoshida-san is a fan of Italian prog rock, so there is a common ground already in our mutual roots and upbringing.

This is a live record, but how much of it is truly “live” in the sense of untouched raw energy? Was there ever a temptation to tweak things in post, or was the goal to capture the unfiltered insanity of that night?

No, there is absolutely no trick. What is on tape is what was played live and it’s more than enough. The recording was mixed by our longtime member and sound engineer Lorenzo Stecconi, and we just know he will do the best possible work of art every time.

Zu has always had this ability to make music that isn’t just “listened to” but physically felt—like, you don’t just hear it, it gets into your nervous system. If someone who’d never heard you before asked what “Jazzisdead” sounds like, how would you describe it? And don’t say a genre.

I wouldn’t say a genre because I don’t believe they represent anything. I would say that we express our truth in a way that is hopefully full of joy and elation.

Bass, sax, and drums—this kind of lineup can get dangerously close to collapse when you push it to the extremes like you guys do. Was there ever a moment during this set where you thought, “This might fall apart,” or is riding that edge part of the thrill?

You do not necessarily look for the thrill, but the thrill finds you. Ahah, I know I sound like a Zen paradox now! What we need to express through sound is our naked truth, and it seems like you have to scream your truth these days.

You’ve been at this for over two decades. Does this record feel like you’re breaking new ground, or is it more of a deep dive into something that’s always been there in Zu’s DNA?

To me it’s like one of the many sides of the Zu prism, the one that is more related and son of Ruins and all the 90s Japanese stuff we loved so much. That angle is pushed to the limits in every sense. Technically it is very challenging, but at the same time the sense of joy is doubtless too.

Your collaborations go way beyond just other musicians—working with theatre directors, visual artists, and people pushing sound into new spaces. Do you feel like this project has cracked open new doors for the future, or does it stand on its own as a one-off, lightning-in-a-bottle moment?

We have no idea sincerely. Even if it was a one-off, it’s something that has paid back multiple times. Also, it kind of kickstarted Zu again out there.

Ruins has always been known for absolute rhythmic insanity, and Zu for pushing melody and texture into uncharted territories. After making this record, do you feel like it’s shifted the way you see your own playing?

I have probably explored the thin line between total abandonment and total control. It’s like two hemispheres of one’s brain, each one doing a completely different thing at the same time. This is a very interesting modality, and I think I have learned so much in this.

When you take this out on the road, are these tracks going to evolve further, or is this record already the most distilled, raw version of what RuinsZu can be?

We are touring with Zu now, and no tracks released on ‘Jazzisdead’ are played, but the spirit and energy are there.

Last one—what’s the weirdest or most intense reaction you’ve gotten from someone listening to this record? Has anyone come up to you after a show and said something that made you see the music in a totally new way?

We just realized how much people had missed seeing these two bands, and probably many more bands we grew up with in the 90s, like Fugazi or Nomeansno for example, all bands that pushed the boundaries and screamed their own truth in the face of everything. Probably there is still a need for people expressing this attitude, so it seems like a lot of people were undoubtedly joyful and grateful to see us. That was not weird maybe, but definitely a very intense and good feeling.

Klemen Breznikar

Headline photo: Kat Kubiak

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